00:00:00 Relating with the passing of her spiritual partner Gyatrul Rinpoche

00:04:00 Humility and dharma before material phenomena.

00:11:00 Dudjom Rinpoche and Sangyum Wangmo.

00:15:00 16th Karmapa

00:19:00 3 Kayas and wisdom aspects

00:37:00 Reading recommendations

00:38:00 On faith, degenerate age and different kinds of practitioners.

00:42:00 Daily meditation practice

00:44:00 What to think about when emerging from practice.


Sangye Khandro



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Transcript (please excuse all errors)

Olivia Clementine: I’m Olivia Clementine and this is Love and Liberation. Today our guest is Sangye Khandro. Sangye has been a translator of the Dharma since 1976. She has helped to establish numerous centers in the U. S. and has served as a translator for many prominent masters in all four lineages.

Sangye has been the spiritual companion of the Venerable Gyatrul Rinpoche for nearly 30 years and has continued to help serve the centers established by her root teacher, Dudjom Rinpoche, with whom she studied and practiced for many years. Sangye Kandro is one of the founders of the Light of Berotsana translation group.

I recognize this is an unusual year for you and your sangha with the passing of Gyatrul Rinpoche and I hope everybody is taking good care during such a big transition.

Sangye Khandro: Yeah, it is really difficult and we’re dealing with it, but The energy has been really good with the song, everyone’s very committed to carry on, and we have plans for visiting teachers and programs, and that’s what Rinpoche expect, would have expected, and so we will do it, we’re doing it, but it’s hard for everyone, it’s been really hard for me, I’ve just been trying to, to absorb that these last few months.

Life without Rinpoche in the human form, you know, it’s different. He was 98. It was expected. We were hoping he’d reach a hundred, but it was, it was his time. But still, when you lose someone you love so deeply, it’s really hard.

Olivia Clementine: Yeah. And you knew him for half of his life and so much of your life thus far.


Sangye Khandro: Yeah, my whole adult life, he’s been the most important person in the world to me, and you know, now there’s this vacuum, you know, because always we, we take care of him and we’re with him, but it’s okay. I mean, just working with it, going to the next level, but you really do get The truth of impermanence in these kinds of circumstances, I mean, you thought you did, even when you first heard those teachings, but in truth, we don’t really get it.

You know, we still, we haven’t gotten it to our core, and I’m, I haven’t gotten it there yet either, but it’s much deeper than it ever was. And so that’s, that’s good. Rinpoche always spoke about impermanence. It was one of his mantras. So, that’s what’s happening, you know.

Olivia Clementine: Well, maybe that’s a good place to begin, is…

I know you’ve, you’ve known this person for so long, you were his main translator and his companion and I’m sure you have innumerable memories of him. And I wonder if you’d want to share either a story, or something he said to you or some way of his being that you lean on now, in terms of staying true to the path.

Sangye Khandro: Yes, it’s a good question. And yes, I have many, many memories. I’m hoping that while I’m still able to, I can write down a lot of the information that I have because I have information that no one else does about Rinpoche and his life and so forth. But, you know, mainly the way that we originally connected was based on me, you know, observing his profound humility.

And that was always… That’s a key quality that Rinpoche projected that I have been trying to emulate and I was so impressed by that because it, it just was unlike I had ever seen in, in someone of his stature, you know he, he just would put himself down all the time. In fact, in the early years. It used to bother me because I wanted him to not say that.

I wanted others to see who he was, and in our culture, you know, it’s the opposite. If you put yourself down, people believe you. And, you know, but if you promote yourself, then they’re impressed and they follow you. But he wanted nothing of that culture. He was who he was. A sincerely humble tuku who really did not believe that he was anyone special.

He didn’t have, like, the Tulku illness, you know, of believing I’m so special. He did not have that. And so that was a beautiful quality to witness. So that later, for example, when we were, when we got this land here at Tashi Chöling, it was offered to Rinpoche and myself as a place to build a retreat house, but Rinpoche immediately invited Kyabje Dudjom Rinpoche to come and bless it, and then began making plans for this to be a retreat center that would benefit many beings.

And then the first thing he wanted to do was build a very large, a 35 foot Vajrasattva statue outdoors. And we had no infrastructure here at all. There was nothing. And we started that project in late August. And we had no money either. And I, I wondered, what is he thinking? You know, there’s no funds and it’s a statue.

And yes, that’s wonderful, but it’s not really going to be a temple where people can gather. It’s not really going to be a residence where we can stay. You know, we were staying in tents and a trailer, but Rinpoche’s wisdom was if you build Vajrasattva first, you purify the negative karma and accumulate the merit so that this place can flourish more easily.

His faith in Dharma was so completely 100 percent there believing in Dharma way before any material phenomena or practical decisions. And so we started building the statue and just like everything else here at Tashi Chilling, Rinpoche participated 100 percent in all the work. He just worked with all of us as though he was one of us.

From early morning till late at night, physical labor, whatever it took. So those are really the impressions, mostly humility and then just dedication to establish dharma in this country. And he was truly a pioneer in his time because this was actually here at, in Oregon, this was. The early 1980s, but Rinpoche started teaching and holding the center in the 1970s down in the Bay Area.

And even back then, if you spoke about the suffering of samsara, students would raise their hand and object. You know, there was a lot of pullback about basic premises of Buddha Dharma that people would object to. They didn’t want to hear those things. And Rinpoche, you know, he really, he really went through a lot.

He went through the meat grinder, you could say. And, for example, if he passed out red blessing cords many of them said, What am I gonna, am I gonna wear this, this string on my neck? Are you serious? You know, and they would balk at it and, you know, just disrespectful and, you know, people would say really bad things to him and, you know, walk over the Dharma and just do all these things.

But Rinpoche knew that they didn’t know what they were doing. They didn’t really, you know, intentionally mean to do that. But he was one of the first. teachers to come, and so he kind of took the bulk of a lot of the difficulty in training, you know, these really hippies, most of us were hippies, who came to Dharma, to become more ethical and sophisticated as human beings, and then, of course, to learn Dharma.

So his perseverance, his humility, his dedication. Those are the main things.

Olivia Clementine: Your main root teacher is Dudjom Rinpoche, and you received teachings, I think, from him before you met Gyatrul Rinpoche. Is that true? And would you also share about Dudjom and his wife, Sangyum Wangmo, and your experience with them, and if you have any stories or particular memories you would want to share.

Sangye Khandro: I first met Kyabje Dudjom Rinpoche in Hawaii in Honolulu in 1973. My husband at the time, Jesse Sartain, he received a phone call from Sonam Kazi who was A Sikkimese diplomat who was with the Dudjom family in Hong Kong, and he called and he said, I’m with the Dudjom family. They’re en route to the Bay Area at the invitation of -, but they want to stop in Hawaii.

Would you be able to host them? And Jesse turned to me and, and, you know, told me and we both said yes. And so that was that. They arrived And they were there for just a few days, but in that first meeting, you know, Kyabje Dudjom Rinpoche was wearing street clothes because he was traveling, and so no robes, no nothing, and just, he was very small, with his hair pulled back in a little bun and very unassuming.

And so it was really, it was quite interesting. You know, the whole family was there because they’re a very colorful family. It was just so interesting to see again, such humility, such simplicity. But then when he taught the Dharma, I’ll never forget that that was a turning point in my life because he right away in his, I think, one and only main teaching that he gave in Kailua on the other side of the island, we rented a place where you could just look out into the ocean, and he gave pointing out instructions, mind nature instructions, and it was Absolutely transcendental, really.

And we just sat and meditated with him for a very long time. And after that, he gave refuge to five of us. And so that was my first meeting, but I knew he was my root teacher at that time. And his wife, Sangyum Kusho Rigdzin Wangmo, she was… A very, very unique dakini. She also really took the backseat.

She, you know, she followed the cultural customs of a Tibetan woman from central Tibet. And so she, although she came along many times, not every time, Rinpoche came to the

centers. She would just stay in the residence and in the room. And I got to thinking, now what is she doing in the room? Like, all this time she’s basically not coming out except for meals. and never wants to go for a walk. Sometimes we took her out shopping to get gifts for her granddaughter, but mostly just staying in the room and being quiet.

And I realized she was practicing. It’s all she did was practice. She was a great practitioner, a great meditator, and totally at ease. and satisfied with doing nothing, just being there to support her husband. And another thing that really impressed me was whenever she would walk in the room, if you were in the room with Kyabje Dudjom Rinpoche, and then she would come in, he always stood up.

And he always put his palms together and bowed down towards her every time and would sit down after she sat down. He was incredibly, you know, respectful of her and in love with her. And it was, it was just beautiful to see that. Beautiful relationship that they have.

Olivia Clementine: What an example for you, especially being your root teacher to see that. So at that time as well, you were around the 16th Karmapa, would you want to share about that experience?

Sangye Khandro: Yes that was also around that same time period. Jesse, again, my husband at the time, we were instrumental in helping bring the Karmapa to the islands. And so he and his large entourage, I think eight to nine monks, including his treasure and so on, they were all with him.

And we got a place for them again in Kailua the other side of the island on Oahu. And he, you know, he, there was, there was really no one like the 16th Karmapa. He was just a powerful living Buddha who projected himself exactly like that. You couldn’t, you wouldn’t use the word humble with him because Of course, humility was his basic essence, but he was powerful and projected that sense of what is it, just the majesty of who he was, as though he were a king, a Dharma king.

That’s what he was like. And it was really amazing just being around him. And he wa he really loved Gyatrül Rimpoche. He loved everyone, but he, he especially was just always took Rinpoche under his wing was though he knew he needed, he needed to give Rinpoche some extra blessings. ’cause Rinpoche was gonna have a hard life.

Living in the West, you know, dealing with these Westerners from, from point one, you know, ground zero. So, one time, because my parents lived in Hawaii my mom knew I was involved with all these Lamas’, of course, because I had been in India, and I mean, it’s not as though they really were that happy about it, but.

I asked her if she would like to meet him and she said, okay, if you think so. And so I arranged an interview for my mother. And it was so beautiful because not only was he so kind and sweet, but he asked his attendant to go in the room and get something. And the attendant came out with a Bible and he handed this Bible to my mother.

And she was. It’s, you know, melted by that act because, you know, that just sealed it for her. She realized, well, okay, everything’s going to be okay. My daughter’s okay. Because of course she’s Christian and worried and she thought maybe this is a cult she doesn’t understand, you know, and here he is giving her a Bible.

So that was really amazing. And Yeah, just wherever he went, he would magnetize people and bless them and change their lives.

Olivia Clementine: You’re very able to transmit teachings in a way that is precise and able to be received. and There’s many influences certainly your own practice and being a translator to so many incredible masters over your lifetime,

so I didn’t want to miss this opportunity to ask you some questions about fundamental aspects in the Dharma. And the first one being the three kayas. Would you share about the three kayas and and how we can understand them and recognize them throughout our day.

Sangye Khandro: Well, thank you. And yes, I have had an opportunity to hear a lot of teaching. There’s no doubt about that. But to tell you the truth, As a translator, a lot of the time, you’re more like a conduit. I mean, this is really, I’m sincere about this. Honestly, you, you will do your job of translating on the spur of the moment, because it’s spontaneous.

Although you try to prepare, you know, still. Translation work can be very, you know, spontaneous. Afterwards, sometimes I can’t remember, you know, I certainly can’t remember all the details of the teaching. You know what I mean? Even though I’ve had a lot of teachings, I may not have retained them personally.

And so, you know, I’m trying to listen, re listen to many things these days, of course, and it’s quite enlightening. But anyway, the, the Three Kayas, yes, that’s very, very important information and teaching that we simply must not forget. Wrap our minds around and then be able to determine the correct view about the three kayas and then familiarize with the view in meditation, right?

And then bring that familiarity to our daily life. But first, the first step is to receive kayas.

And, I personally believe it’s really important to receive teachings from a teacher orally that you hear, that you sit in front of the teacher, you hear it, you absorb it. You can’t just only read books on these profound subjects. It must be a transmission. So the way to understand more clearly is to understand that you know, the three kayas correspond to wisdom awareness.

In Vajrayana, kaya and wisdom, kayas and wisdoms, we can say as plural, are really non dual together, one and the same. You don’t have kayas without wisdom and you don’t have wisdom without kayas. And so you have to understand what are the wisdom aspects of the three kayas. So, dharmakaya has three wisdom aspects.

And Sambhogakaya has five, and Nirmanakaya has two. Basically you must know this in order to understand what are three kayas. And again, it’s still at first, it’s intellectual understanding.

But then you reflect upon it and go deeper until you determine, ah, that’s it. Yes, that’s correct. So first hearing and, and understanding intellectually. So the three kayas the three wisdoms of the dharmakaya are the nature of mind. It’s all the nature of mind, mind’s nature, the dharmata nature of mind.

But it means the essence which is Dharmakaya, and that essence is empty, emptiness. And then the nature, which relates to Sambhogakaya, and that is lucid, or radiant. There’s an energy. You can say cognizance, wakefulness, lucidity. It’s all the same. It means the presence. of the awareness factor. That’s the Sambhogakaya.

And that’s the second wisdom of Dharmakaya. And then the third, which corresponds to Nirmanakaya, is the unobstructed power of compassion, or responsiveness. And so that means this, unobstructed means there’s nothing stopping it. It’s always going to manifest. It’s always going to be present in everything.

whether they’re pure, whether it’s pure or impure, phenomenal. So, dharmakaya has the three kayas in this way. All, all of the three kayas include the other two. So it’s indivisible. You never have dharmakaya without sambhogakaya and nirmanakaya. You never have sambhogakaya without dharmakaya and nirmanakaya.

You will never have nirmanakaya without dharmakaya and sambhogakaya. So dharmakaya, the three wisdoms, are called the three wisdoms of the ground, the ground of reality or Dharmakaya. Of those three, what needs to be realized, all, all three aspects of those wisdoms need to be identified and reawakened because they are already present in the essence of our mind, which is already fully awake as Buddha, right?

And so, yet, because we have gone astray and we’ve been in ignorance. awareness or dimmed awareness for so long, our habits are so strong and so overwhelming, then we don’t readily identify the qualities of who we really are. But, because it’s who we really are, it’s far more powerful than the temporary condition of who we aren’t, which is our ignorance.

And so it will, it’s so potent, it will be able to blossom very, very swiftly by just application of becoming familiar, determining and becoming familiar. So the most important is the essence, which is empty. And so that emptiness, or we can also say in Dzogchen terminology, it’s Mepa, which means non existent or non existence.

And so mepa has to be acknowledged for what it is before a practitioner can really move on with lucidity and unobstructed compassion. Because if nonexistence is not identified and determined, then there will be fixation or materializing towards It’s the phenomena which projects from this state of non existence.

So that’s really important. And also, according to highest Tantra and this system, this level of knowing emptiness is called NAM KUN CHOK DEN GI THONG PA NI, which means emptiness that is fully endowed with all qualities. It’s not emptiness as it’s taught in Madhyamaka. It is emptiness that is endowed with wisdom.

What wisdom? These three wisdoms. So these are the three wisdoms of the ground, dharmakaya, or emptiness. And then Sambhogakaya has five wisdoms. Those five wisdoms are the five, I’m sure you’re familiar, Dharmadhatu wisdom, mirror like wisdom, and evenness wisdom, discerning wisdom, and all accomplishing wisdom.

The five wisdoms that correspond to the five Buddha families and the five wisdom dakinis, and they are the counterpart of the five poisons. They are the essence of five passions, or five poisons. In other words, the five poisons are in fact these five wisdoms. And so those are called the five wisdoms that sustain features.

So the three wisdoms of Dharmakaya are called the three wisdoms of the ground. The five wisdoms of Sambhogakaya are called the five wisdoms that sustain features. What does that mean? It means… The features of what each one brings to the four, meaning Dharmadhatu, mirror like. Again, one has to learn, receive the teachings.

But it basically describes the nature of all phenomena, of everything. But not in a corporeal way, in a wisdom way. Because Sambhogakaya is Not solid, yet it appears. It’s the appearance of Dharmakaya. All wisdom deities are Sambhogakaya. And, so, anyway, there’s quite a bit to be known there. And, you know, the whole Guhyagarbha Tantra takes this as its main subject, right?

But anyone who wants to practice and accomplish Vajrayana needs to study and learn this. Then, Nirmanakaya has two wisdoms. And they’re called the two wisdoms that sustain excuse me, the two wisdoms that engage objectively. So, nirmanakaya, or this unobstructed power of compassion. This can be pure and impure, because there’s no obstruction.

Obviously, we know nirmanakaya appears in impure realms to the minds of impure sentient beings. Our teachers, if they’re a tulku, that means they’ve been identified as a nirmanakaya buddha. That’s what that is. They intentionally came into the realm. They are the embodiment of the unobstructed power of compassion.

But in truth, everything is. And so the two wisdoms have to do with engaging objectively. A nirmanakaya that comes into an impure realm has to engage with objective phenomena as sentient beings perceive it, otherwise there’s no way to relate. We wouldn’t even meet the Dharma if it wasn’t for the nirmanakaya.

We would have no teachers. And if there’s no teacher, if there’s no Buddha, there’s no Dharma. Buddha was supreme nirmanakaya, right? We don’t know how to meet Sambhogakaya Buddhas, Vajradhara, and we certainly don’t know how to meet the Dharmakaya Samantabhadra, until first we meet Buddha, nirmanakaya. So engaging objectively means through two aspects of omniscient wisdom.

First is, The Omniscient Wisdom that knows the nature of things. And then the second is the Omniscient Wisdom that knows all appearances to be that nature as they appear without any conflict. And so those are the two aspects of Omniscient Wisdom knowledge. And they belong to nirmanakaya. In other words, a nirmanakaya Buddha has to have that.

It’s there inherently. In other words, they see the nature of reality even though they’re in an impure realm dealing with sentient beings. And they see it in all the aspects of how that impure phenomena is manifesting. They still see the nature. And that’s the supreme example for all of us. Like in your questions you were asking, how do you take this dharma, the three kayas, to the, to the life, to regular life?

Well, it would be, ideally, by accomplishing two fold wisdom, omniscient wisdom awareness. To see the nature of things, to know the nature of things, in terms of holding the view, and then to recognize that nature in the way things appear. No matter how they appear, if they appear in a way that usually entices us, as opposed to appearing in a way that usually gives us revulsion.

There’s no difference. It’s just the same. It’s the same wisdom nature appearing for what it is. So in that way, by practicing, one is able to understand purity and evenness, those two things, which are also non dual, have to be non dual in the mind of a practitioner who’s really holding the view in regular life.

How do you do that in regular life? You have to familiarize in practice. Many people think, oh, you know, hear the Dzogchen teachings or any teachings and then just, you know, bring that to your daily life. It’s impossible to make progress until you familiarize. and actually gain some stability with the nature of who you really are.

Otherwise, we’re constantly bombarded by our dualistic mind and all the other aspects that go along with that, which we know so well. Distraction. And fear and, you know, just endlessly moving through the dynamics of ordinary life in this crazy world. So that’s a very brief kind of just overview of the three kayas in terms of the wisdom qualities.

And it’s really important to remember that that nirmanakaya has The five wisdoms of Sambhogakaya and the three wisdoms of Dharmakaya. There’s no separation, and, you know, likewise, going back into them. So it’s one and the same. And, you know, this level of Dharma is so incredibly beautiful. And the way that we can really understand reality and life through these explanations.

It is unprecedented, there’s nothing like it that exists in this world, these teachings. So we always should consider ourselves extremely fortunate to even, you know, see or hear, let alone have a chance to practice this. But this is the way to be liberated from samsara.

This is it. That is it. It comes down to that. So it’s a good question, and it’s very much worth pursuing in terms of knowing what these three kayas are, and there’s many sources for knowing that good translations that are out these days that were not available, you know, many years ago, so.

Olivia Clementine: Do you have any favorites?

Sangye Khandro: Well, you know, I don’t really read that many English books, to tell you the truth, because we’re always working on yet our next translation with Khenchen Namdrol Rinpoche and his teachings, but for this subject, Mipham Rinpoche’s Essence of Clear Light on Purity and Evenness, that’s, that’s a must read.

And any of the Guhyagarbha commentaries, all of them really should be read even before one starts to focus too much on Dzogchen transmissions. But in terms of Dzogchen, any of Longchenpa’s Seven Treasures and their commentaries, all of them, that’s, those are the quintessential instructions, on Trekchod and Togyal for the path of Dzogchenpa.

There’s, you know, many different types of individuals. Not everyone is going to study. and really learn, you know, the actual teachings. They’re just going to have a lot of faith and devotion. And we have many examples of faithful disciples who attain highest levels of realization based on faith alone.

So, faith is probably the single most important quality that needs to be there, whether scholarly or not, you know. But, I think that Particularly, we Westerners, you know, we weren’t raised with Buddhism, it’s relatively new to us from the time we meet it. And so, this is another reason why we do need to study and learn more thoroughly.

What exactly it is that we’re pursuing, and it’s only going to be beneficial and helpful if one approaches in that way. And it’s unfortunate because there’s so many teachings that are given just on weekends or like one time or two time talks. And, you know, they’re on the highest subjects, and a lot of people think, Oh, I have that teachings, I’m set, I’m ready to go.

It’s not even beginning to scratch the surface. It’s just so incomplete, honestly. Of course it’s great, because that’s what’s happening. But I think the very best way to receive Dharma, I know, is to receive the teaching on a text. From beginning to end and you know to do to do it in the way that it was always done, not the new way that Dharma is being disseminated for the busy life in the West.

Olivia Clementine: Do you think commitments have changed in terms of our energy towards actual practice? Is it different because we’re in the degenerate age?

Sangye Khandro: Yes. You know, just being around Dharma centers I see a huge difference. People are not nearly as dedicated as they used to be 20, 30 years ago. They don’t give over their entire life and time. And, you know, it’s because they can’t afford to. It’s the circumstances of the degenerate age prevent them from being able to, at least that’s what they’re stuck with, but being able to really pursue the Dharma deeply because they have to earn money or whatever else the reason is.

Of course, anyone who wants to pursue Dharma deeply can renounce and do that. There’s a way to work it out, right? And that way has always been the same. That’s not different. What’s different is people have more fear. There’s fear going forward. They’re afraid of pandemics. They’re afraid of getting sick.

And when they, when they express that fear, they don’t choose Dharma first. to remedy that fear. They’ll choose, you know, whatever is being required of them from a medical or scientific point of view. And people are very afraid of global warming and disasters. And, you know, there’s just a fear because of the circumstances of the degenerate time that’s escalating.

And so they’re not as willing to just go into retreat. Give it all up and trust in Dharma before and above and beyond anything else. You have very few people who will do a solitary retreat now, a strict solitary retreat, which requires you to promise that you won’t break that retreat no matter what happens.

Very few people would be able to do that now, but before, people were lining up to do that. So yes, it’s definitely different.

Olivia Clementine: How can we soften the distinction between practice and daily life?

Sangye Khandro: I just think that each person has to have a daily discipline so that they do have a daily practice. There has to be discipline. And as long as that’s there, even if you’re just practicing even for a half an hour, there’s some quality to that experience. which gives you a glow, gives you an energy that will sustain you for a while in daily life in a different way.

I know that there is nothing that brings us happiness like the way Dharma does. One cannot even describe, you know, just the blissful feeling that is there when you’ve had a good practice session. There’s nothing like it. And so we have to be able to afford ourselves that opportunity, and then begin whatever we’re doing in life with the glow, or, you know, the after glow.

What that brought for you, to you, and you know, you just continue. Then you see, oh, this is really wonderful. This is compatible. I can deal with life in a much more uplifted, cheerful way. Why? Because I did my practice really nicely, you know, and I received the blessings in my practice. And so then you want to practice more, and then you practice more, and then you bring that out into your daily life, and because it works, then things just get better and better.

Pretty soon, you were really having the discipline to have a solid practice every day. No matter what, if you have to work or not, you still do that. You choose that over zoning out with the cell phone or Netflix or just whatever, you know?

Olivia Clementine: If somebody comes out of their practice and they’re beginning their daily activities, what are questions one could ask themselves to keep turning their minds towards the empty nature of their experiences of what they’re seeing, of phenomenon?

Sangye Khandro: I think awareness, you know, these, these days mindfulness is popular, but I would choose the word awareness. Rigpa versus Marigpa, which is dimmed awareness or ignorance. So it’s like, turn the light on, stop being in dimmed awareness, turn your light on and be in awareness and be aware, aware of the Buddha nature, even if you don’t know about three kaya wisdom, Buddha nature, just believing that’s who you really are.

That’s who everyone else really is. Try to remind yourself, try to remind yourself that everything is non existent, ultimately. But that doesn’t mean that it’s a voidness where there’s no energy, that that Dharmakaya has the lucidity and radiance of Sambhogakaya and the unobstructed power of Nirmanakaya.

And just bringing, you know, these… These dharma teachings to your mind as often as possible to be familiar. Definitely it’s going to help. It’s going to change things. Problem is we forget. We just get so caught up and speedy. We get so speedy, like buzzing. And a lot of people bring that same speedy, buzzing energy right into their, their practice.

And they’re not really, they don’t really get the bliss of practice. Because they’re trying to rush through it, because it’s just the ordinary mind that thinks it needs to accomplish something as quickly as possible and then go on to the next thing. It’s really important to settle in, to just completely let go and take the time and really do the practice nicely.

And then all of this works, but if we use that same ordinary mind in practice, it’s not going to work. So it has to be wisdom, awareness, and practice, and then awareness as best we can with ordinary mind and daily life.

Olivia Clementine: As, as we close, is there anything else you would like to share, any projects you’re focused on or anything else?

Sangye Khandro: Well, I’m focused on completing our translation of the Jewel Treasure of the Dharmadhatu, which is root verses and auto commentary by Omniscient Longchenpa with commentary by Khenchen Namdor Rinpoche. So that’s what I’m focused on doing so that that book can be published soon. So, whoever qualifies to receive that, that’s something to look forward to, because we really, really have tried hard to get this as close to Longchampa’s writing as possible.

So, there’s that, and, and otherwise, you know, just… Encouraging everyone to enjoy the Dharma and embrace it with all your heart and be happy, and don’t be rigid. And Dharma is not something that has to be a certain way, no matter what you, what, what other teachers or your teachers may tell you. It’s not like that.

Dharma is very flexible and resilient. So many people bring their, their crazy neurotic mind right into dharma and dharma centers and sanghas and, you know, it’s better to just relax and learn and be open and be loving and be kind and to always try to find your own faults if there’s a conflict rather than blaming someone else.