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Her Eminence Sakya Jetsunma Kunga Trinley Palter
Jetsunma Kunga Trinley Palter is the granddaughter of His Holiness the 41st Sakya Trizin and the eldest daughter of the 42nd Sakya Trizin and Dagmo Kalden Dunkyi. Jetsunma is also a tulku, the reincarnation of the Nyingma practitioner and treasure revealer, Khandro Tare Lhamo.
We sit down and talk about her life thus far, being raised as a Jetsunma in the Sakya lineage, how she spends her time, and what she aspires for in the future.
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Timenotes:
00:00:00 Introduction
00:01:39 Growing up in a dharma lineage from the 12th Century
00:03:25 Becoming a nun
00:04:09 A day in Jetsunma’s life
00:06:58 Who inspires Jetsunma
00:09:00 About her family
00:10:40 On being the reincarnation of Khandro Tare Llamo
00:12:43 Her first retreat at 14 years old
00:14:25 Being the first Jetsunma to do the Phurba Cham
00:15:50 Qualities of a meaningful life
00:17:52 Advice for taking care of one’s mind
00:19:45 Jetsunma’s life aspirations
00:20:20 Closing images and song
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Melodius offering:
Tara’s Song at Dawn by Dechen Wangmo
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Rough Transcript
Please excuse all errors
Olivia: [00:00:00] I’m Olivia Clementine and this is Love and Liberation. Today, our guest is Her Eminence Sakya Jetsunma Kunga Trinley Palter. Jetsunma was born in 2007 and is the granddaughter of his Holiness, the [00:01:00] 41st Sakya Trizin, and the eldest daughter of the 42nd Sakya Trizin and Dagmo Kalden Jetsunma is also a tulku, the reincarnation of the nyingma practitioner and treasure revealer, Khandro Tare Llamo. Today we sit down and talk about her life thus far, being raised as a Jetsunma in the Sakya lineage, how she spends her time, and what she aspires for in the future.
Olivia: I thought we could begin, because your, your upbringing is so unusual. And, like, what was it like growing up in a family that’s essentially inseparable from the Dharma?
Jetsunma: For me, it’s, um, normal. Because that’s the only thing I, I know. So it’s, uh, and [00:02:00] I don’t know many other families which aren’t very closely related to the, connected with the Dharma. So I’m not sure how different it is from other people’s lives.
Olivia: And so, Was there a moment because your family, the Sakya family dates back to the 12th century. So, so long ago. And was there a moment you realized, Oh my gosh, I’m connected to this very long lineage of Dharma.
Jetsunma: , I don’t think I’ve had one specific moment. Growing up, I was just, um, always surrounded by Sangha, surrounded by Dharma, and by history. And, um, my grandfather, his Holiness the 41st Sakya Trizin. He always tells stories and, history, speaks about history at the dining table.
So, I always, grew up with it.
Olivia: At the dining room table, is he telling you because he wants you to know about your history, or because he just loves to share, or why would he always be [00:03:00] sharing?
Jetsunma: I think it’s because he wants us to know. And also, there’s not many people, there’s hardly anyone Who knows the stuff he knows, who has experienced his life, like coming from Tibet and everything.
It’s really unique experience. he always tells us stories and about that too.
Olivia: So you’re a nun now. When did you become a nun?
Jetsunma: Uh, 2017, when I was, uh, ten years old.
Olivia: When you were ten years old? Yeah. And so, how did you decide to become a nun?
Jetsunma: Um, I think it was because I was always, like, surrounded by sangha, and I’ve always had, like, a strong connection with dharma, me being born in this family, and also my previous life Khandro Tare Llamo. Even though, um, she wasn’t a nun, she had the qualifications of, very, good spiritual leader, and she was very, like, well loved so I think that and also in this life, being surrounded with so many Sangha members, [00:04:00] and they’ve always been like family my home was very close and all the Sangha members, so I think, I think that’s why
Olivia: So what does a day in your life look like? Like, what are you doing in the midst of a day?
Jetsunma: Um, mostly have classes. classes start from six. I have a one hour break from seven to eight. And then from, 12 to 1. 30 I have a lunch break. Then from 6 to 7 I have a dinner break. Then other than that, from 2 to 6 I have classes. And from, 7 to 9 I have classes. So the whole day basically.
Olivia: And what are you studying?
Jetsunma: philosophy mainly. I have, um, one hour of, English, one hour of Chinese. And, uh, one hour, 15 minutes of debate. Other than that is, uh, and one hour of, memorization. Other than that is all philosophy.
Olivia: Is there a certain goal of where you’re going with all of this study?
Jetsunma: my main goal is to [00:05:00] be able to, um, Give the people what they want. Like, whatever questions they might have, I want to be able to answer all of them. whether it be rituals, or philosophical, or like tantric practices, I want to be able to answer all of them.
Any questions they might have, I want to be able to help them in as many ways as possible.
Olivia: Now, we’re in the midst of Lamdre, you have to participate in some of it. So then what happens with classes? Do you pause the class and go and participate or?
Jetsunma: Um, the classes right now, it’s all a self study. Even when I’m having a usual classes, most of them are self study. I have about six hours of self study. So right now, There isn’t any, teachings, like, for my classes, it’s just self study, so whenever I have time, for example, during the triple vision, it was from, from 8 to 12, there was oral [00:06:00] transmissions, so I had classes from 6 to 7, and, uh, from 2 to about 5, there was, um, the triple vision teachings, and, um, So I had classes from about, 5.
30 to 6. 30 and 6. 30 then people start to come. Then, uh, at 7 we go have dinner with His Holiness.
Speaker 3: Are you in a school program with other students the rest of the time or always self-study?
Jetsunma: I’m not going to like, uh, college. I have Khenpo Cheyang teaching me and the six other nuns. from, four of our nunneries from Nepal and India, both. Um, they study with me, uh, in the Dekyi Ling Anigumba, uh, Dekyi Ling Nunnery in, um, Dehradun. We study there together. So we study the same things, our shedra our college would study, but we’re studying it, separately,
Olivia: So, are there any people [00:07:00] in your family that you’re particularly inspired by, like as practitioners, or outside your family that you’re inspired by?
Jetsunma: Practitioners, well, I know, um, A lot of great, Lamas but, the ones I’ve spent the most time with are my, grandfather and my father, and because I’ve spent that much time with them, that’s, they are the ones I, um, look up to the most, because I’ve seen how, simply they live their lives, and A day in their life mainly consists of the sadhanas and, you know, always helping people.
There’s not much that they do that is not helping people on the day. So they really inspire me spiritually.
Olivia: And how are they different from each other?
Jetsunma: Think right now my grandfather mainly focuses on doing his sadhanas and seeing people.
my father in Dehradun, he doesn’t have like, timings where he sees people. If they want to see, [00:08:00] they just inform him and he’ll tell them to come at what time. But my grandfather always sees people from 11 to 12, so there’s like a specific time.
My father mainly does his sadhanas. and, um, he has many, many projects that he’s working on right now. for example, the Sakya center, he made the new rooms for the older monks and the nunnery too. And then he has his own project with like the Kalimpong , monastery and shedra college. He has the Sakya Foundation and there’s so many that he just, he just has a lot of work.
Olivia: Yeah, you were saying too yesterday that your mother also is very engaged. So both of your parents are in service. Yes. It sounds like all the time. Yeah.
Jetsunma: Yeah. They’re always helping people.
Olivia: It’s so beautiful to witness how close your family is [00:09:00] and that you spend so much time together. And wondering how do you think that’s influenced you growing up in such a close way
Jetsunma: I think it, really helped me because, um, if I have like any, spiritual questions or like problems, I can always ask my father. And if there’s any questions that are more emotional or like more, that require more modern solutions, I can ask my mother and my, um, mother’s parents, my grandparents. So we’ll It helps that we’re all really close.
That’s also one of the main reasons that I did not go to college. because then I wouldn’t have as much time with my grandparents. Like, His Holiness. I am closer to them because I am not going to a college and I’m studying on my own.
Whenever His Holiness give teachings I’m able to receive them. Because if I went to like a college, I have to stick with the [00:10:00] schedule and I wouldn’t be able to receive as much teachings. So,
Olivia: Are there any parts of your path or position in life that you find extra challenging?
Jetsunma: if I. led like a normal life and then was suddenly put into this, spiritual role as when I was like, maybe eight or nine, then I would have find it more difficult. But since I’ve always grown up with this life and I’ve seen my father, my grandfather, they all lead this life.
So I don’t think, I personally don’t find any problems. for me it’s just how it is.
Olivia: So you’re a tulku, you’re reincarnation, as you said, of Khandro Tare Llamo and she was a great practitioner and a terton, A treasure revealer who passed away not that long ago, 2002. And so do you remember her, or do you feel a connection to her?
What’s your relationship with her? [00:11:00]
Jetsunma: don’t remember anything right now. – . But I think, uh, but when I was younger I used to, um, say words that none of my family members knew. And, um, they didn’t teach me. They didn’t know what it meant. But then. And then later they knew, um, later they learned that it was words from the Amdo dialect.
And they don’t really understand Amdo dialect. So, and there’s nobody in my family that speaks Amdo dialect. So I was saying words from that dialect when I was younger. And that dialect, because Khandro Tare Llamo was from Amdo. So, yeah.
Olivia: And when were you recognized as her? –
Jetsunma: I’m not really sure. The first person I actually remember coming to see me because I was, Khandro Tare Llamo’s reincarnation was in 2015. So,
Olivia: yeah. Well, and being her reincarnation, does that mean you carry on [00:12:00] parts of her lineage or her texts or is there anything you carry on that she did ?
Jetsunma: I would, I’d like to. Right now I haven’t had the chance to.
Right now I’ve, the scriptures I’ve been studying and the teachings I’ve been receiving are all Sakya. But I would like to be able to do that in the future.
Olivia: What was she practicing? Can you share anything about her?
Jetsunma: she’s from the, Nyingma sect. And she was believed to be like a emanation of Kurukulla.
Olivia: Magnetizing.
Jetsunma: Yes.
Olivia: You did your first retreat in 2021 with your father. You were 14 years old. And will you share about that, like, what you were doing in the retreat, and then just for you being 14 entering retreat, what that was like?
Jetsunma: It was A wonderful experience, [00:13:00] I’d say. Especially because I had my father with me. Um, we stayed in different retreats, but it was, we stayed in the retreats together. So, um, it was really wonderful.
Olivia: Was he teaching you during the retreat?
Jetsunma: The meaning of the texts, he had, he had already taught me so if I had any questions I would just ask him.
Olivia: – Can you share what the retreat was about, I don’t know if it’s private
Jetsunma: Vajrapani.
Yeah. – – Most people stay, when they stay for the first retreat, they stay for – to get rid of all the obstacles.
Olivia: Okay. And then have you done any retreats since?
Jetsunma: I stayed for my White Tara retreat in, um, 2023. Kalimpong in my father’s monastery. There were a lot of people with me, about a hundred and eleven people, I think, for the long life of His Holiness [00:14:00] the Dalai Lama and His Holiness the 41st Sakya Trizin. My father thought that would be a wonderful idea because His Holiness was turning, um, 80 years old soon.
My, brother, my sister, and my mother also stayed for the retreat with me. My father couldn’t because he had, um, he was abroad and he had to teach. So, me and my mother were in the same room.
Olivia: So you’re also the first Jetsunma to do the Phurba Cham for the Vajrakilaya Puja.
Why was it that you’re the first?
Jetsunma: Well, I think in, back in Tibet, the Jetsunmas never used to go, for the pujas. So, they didn’t used to go for the Vajrakilaya Puja as well, they mainly just stayed in and practiced in their rooms I think. So, if you don’t go for the Vajrakilaya Puja, then you don’t do the Vajrakilaya Cham, I think.
Olivia: so, if you could go back in time and meet one of your predecessors, one of the Jetsunmas, is there one you would want to meet? I
Jetsunma: think, [00:15:00] uh, Jetsunma Pema Trinlei (name correction) I’ve heard a lot about her. And, uh, the first story I remember hearing about her is when, um, she was giving a teaching and, uh, monks from the monastery nearby also came to receive it.
because then they didn’t have any monks in their monastery so they were, they sent some monks to, like, um, bring the monks back. But as soon as they were there, she kept her bumpa (story correction) in the air and rewore her zen. And they were so amazed that instead of taking the monks back, they themselves sat down and received her teachings.
Okay. So ever since I heard that story, she’s just, I was like, uh, really amazed, and, uh, it will be her, I think.
Olivia: What have you found are the most Significant pieces to having a meaningful life.
Jetsunma: I [00:16:00] think one of the most important thing is to get, try to get rid of distraction.
Um, obviously you can’t live, like most people won’t be able to live without a phone and because they still have like work to do and school and all that stuff. They can’t live completely without the internet, but maybe like social media. Big thing and um, even if you are on social media, being mindful of how much time you spend on it.
And um, the social media is like huge. There’s um, Buddhism on it too and then there’s other less meaningful stuff. So making sure that whatever you’re doing is meaningful, meaningful. And when you are spending time on social media, being mindful of how much time you’re spending on it and what What you’re spending it on,
And also being more open minded, I think. I think the main thing is being [00:17:00] mindful and more open minded.
Like if somebody says anything, just be open minded and just don’t really let it affect you. And also because, um If somebody does something and, you don’t really like how they did it or something, don’t let it, like, keep on bothering you.
Just let, be open minded and just let it go.
,
Olivia: And so for you, because you have so much you do in one day, are you on social media?
Jetsunma: Not really. Not really,
I don’t really have free time, but I do have like one hour between like the breaks. And during that time, or before I go to bed, I just try to read.
And what are you reading? What kinds of books?
I used to read, like, a lot of, um, fictional books, but now I’m trying to read more Buddhism, Buddhist books too.
So I try to divide my time.
! And so also like, what would you advise for someone if they feel like they would like to take care of their minds better, but they’re [00:18:00] not quite sure where to begin.
What would you say?
I think meditation is important and meditation doesn’t mean you have to like, um, you don’t even have to have like a quiet space and stay and stay like this. You can just like. Being mindful is also a type of meditation. So wherever you are, as long as you’re mindful, you can first be mindful of your breathing, you know.
Then you can, it’s not like you can do it anywhere. Even when you’re standing, if you’re on the bus, you can, even if you’re waiting for your food at a restaurant or something, you can still be mindful. and try to meditate and the more you meditate, the more easy it will become.
And then soon you’ll be mindful all the time. Then you won’t like waste your time and be more focused on the Dharma.
It doesn’t have to be for long do, cause when you’re first starting off, you won’t be able to, [00:19:00] you won’t even be able to meditate for like maybe five seconds without other thoughts coming into your mind.
So you just. Even like, three, four seconds is good when you’re first starting off, because it’s really hard to not, um, have other thoughts. So, when you start, you can’t expect you to, you can’t expect yourself to be able to be mindful for like a whole minute. That’s, that expectation is too high. Then when you don’t accomplish that, you might feel that you’re not good at it, or that, you’re you, then you might give up.
So important to know, um, what to expect.
Olivia: Great advice.
From this vantage point, what are your main aspirations for this lifetime? Like what you can see from now?
Jetsunma: My main goal, I would say, is trying to make Buddhism accessible to more people. [00:20:00] And, especially because most of our Dharma friends are female, I feel more responsible for the female Dharma practitioners, so I would like to make Dharma Buddhism more accessible for everyone, especially women and children, I would say.
[00:21:00]: Music and images