Today our guest is Sean Price. Sean is an English monk who has spent decades sitting with some of the greatest living masters and chasing down rare texts before they disappear. As director of Tibetan Publications for the Tsadra Foundation and the oral interpreter for Kyabje Shechen Rabjam Rinpoche, he has devoted himself to making the dharma accessible. In this conversation, Sean speaks about what it truly means to have a relationship with a spiritual teacher, a common mistake on the path of realization, and the unexpected journeys behind preserving wisdom for future generations.
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Time notes:
00:00:00: Introduction
00:02:20: Guides who shaped Sean’s path
00:10:30: The one thread running through all great masters
00:13:00: Three things needed for translation to truly work
00:17:46: The overlooked yogi everyone should know about
00:18:16: Saraha, spontaneous songs
00:19:00: Hunting a rare text in Varanasi
00:25:23: What Shabkar shows us about real relationship
00:28:00: His entire life’s practice fit on one page
00:30:00: Spiritual abundance as an obstacle
00:32:03: Chasing texts before they disappear
00:32:30: The giants of text preservation
00:37:47: The Khenpo Gangshar project
00:42:20 Tsele’s writings and why three masters were devoted to saving them
00:45:30: Pure motivation, honest mistakes, and an open invitation
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Links:
Tsadra Foundation
Post Listen Episode with Sangye Khandro
https://oliviaclementine.com/sangye-khandro-on-the-three-kayas-embracing-the-dharma/
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Rough transcript, please excuse all errors:
My name is Olivia Clementine, and this is Love and Liberation. Today our guest is Sean Price. Sean is an English monk who has spent decades sitting with some of the greatest living masters and chasing down rare texts before they disappear. As director of Tibetan Publications for the Tsadra Foundation and the oral interpreter for Kyabje Shechen Rabjam Rinpoche, he has devoted himself to making the dharma accessible.
In this conversation, Sean speaks about what it truly means to have a relationship with a spiritual teacher, a common mistake on the path of realization and the unexpected journeys behind preserving wisdom for future generations.
I have two additional notes about today’s conversation. Towards the end, I mentioned some upcoming transmissions at Shechen monastery that have since taken place.
Rabjam Rinpoche, gave oral transmissions, meaning the reading of texts from teacher to student to preserve and transmit the living lineage of a teaching. Rinpoche offered transmissions for texts from the Buddhist masters. Tsele Natsok Rangdrol, Ronzom Mahapandita and Karma Lingpa, as well as some others. When Sean refers to Tsele, he’s referring to Tsele Natsok Rangdrol, and these recent transmissions.
our conversation takes place outside on the outskirts of Shechen monastery so you’ll hear the hum of the cafe and city we are situated within.
[00:02:03] Olivia: First of all, thank you so much for meeting. So you’re a practitioner and a translator and you’ve spent a lot of time around incredible meditation masters. And I don’t know if you’re willing to share some of the main people that have really influenced you and guided you.
[00:02:20] Sean: I guess in a way. We can talk about our spiritual teachers, a root and branch if you like. And so I think in many ways, of course our
spiritual teachers kind of guide us. but along the way, for example, if we imagine walking from one place to another, like for example, those wonderful, um, monastics walking from across the United States, they’re helped on the way by various people. And so we may have a guide, Our spiritual teacher, but along the way there are a lot of others who kind of shape the course of our journey. And so in that way, I would suggest that not only for myself, but generally speaking, every kind of teacher that we encounter, whether they be, the teacher of our alphabet, or to kind of the person
who kind of points out the nature of mind through empowerment or whatever, they’re all in a way. Equally as important. But I personally, of course, there have been a few individuals that have, uh, really, uh, provided a lot of impetus, uh, for spiritual development. And so I should say Kyabje Trulshik Rinpoche is one of them, Kyabje Shechen Rabjam Rinpoche and is another of them. well, my uh, principal
teacher. Khenpo Yeshe Gyaltsen of course, without him then I wouldn’t be sitting here. And so those are the main three that I would, uh, consider. Of course, if you look at my life as a whole, I received ordination from the Dalai Lama. I was student at his school of a Buddhist philosophy. Not a particularly good one, but I stayed there for a few years in, in Dharmashala at the time I was very close to Kyabje – Rinpoche and others. And, uh, and they also provided a, a wonderful environment
for the, ground, if you like, or the basis of, a spiritual endeavor to thrive. So I was very close to them and remained for those who are still alive still, but majority of them have passed away now. So,
[00:04:40] Olivia: And for many of us that haven’t had the good fortune of meeting, these masters. Will you share a story about each of them or just something that really stays you about how they are? Because I think it’s so helpful to know what’s possible,
[00:04:53] Sean: In a way, every kind of teacher has their own unique Kind of flavor. So you think back, you, the, for me personally, in the nineties His Holiness the Dalai Lama was just like this, you know, torrent of dharma, you know, this kind of unstoppable,
you know, deluge of, of, of, of, profundity. And that was, you know, incredibly inspiring to know kind of what’s possible. Denma Locho Rinpoche Whenever he taught it was like a lion’s roar, you know, he, mean not only in terms of profundity, but in terms of his very being, he was a, uh, a Geluk
master brought up in Kham, and so he could really enunciate and project his voice, whether it was a microphone there or not. I remember one time we were at a, at a center in Singapore, I believe, and uh, Rinpoche had arrived in the morning. So it was, I think the 25th day of the, of, according to the Lunar Calendar, and the people who kindly invited us asked us to join them for a tsok offering, Ganachakra offering.
And they asked just to say kind of hello at the beginning of his time in Singapore, but they hadn’t factored that there will be a translator.
It had escaped their, their mind. And so the they were kind of faffing around putting the microphone on Rinpoche’s table and Rinpoche
said, give it to Sean. He needs it I don’t, and I remember distinctly that his voice was louder than mine. And so again, Rinpoche more often than not was kind of tone his teaching down when addressing like non Tibetan audience, but in Drepung, where I later studied for a number of years.
and On occasion, he would give teaching there, and later I had the honor to translate for him, six times where he gave teaching at, Kopan Monastery. I think It was just, he could just let rip and it was just this, deluge. It was really quite, uh, you know, but also the, the presence and the, the, the, the loudness of things
was just really special. So from uh, his Holiness the Dalai Lama, and Kyabje Locho Rinpoche the main that I receive was this grounding in the, holy might for the graduated stages of the path to enlighten the, Lam Rim or the, the, or how you like. what was incredibly useful.
[00:07:25] Olivia: Yeah.
[00:07:26] Sean: And later, quite interestingly, you know, right at the beginning of my spiritual career, if you like, I very much wanted to, to meet Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche. but the circumstance never kind of came about. Original machine was from the same region of, of Kham that Rinpoche is from, along with the 16th Karmapa. and whatever reason, it was only later in mid nineties that I got to, to come here. that I met Kyabje Shechen Rabjam Rinpoche and Matthieu Ricard,
and Trulshik Rinpoche I’d met previously in 1991 when I went to, actually I went to the teaching of Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse New York when His Holiness the Dalai Lama was given the Kalachakra teaching. But, uh, he sadly passed away. So I never got to see him personally, But Kyabje Trulshik Rinpoche was his, uh, representative And so it was like meeting so I always had this wish to meet Rinpoche and Rabjam Rinpoche but I wanted to learn Tibetan, have a grounding in the Buddhist philosophy before meeting him. So That was, uh, very kindly provided by,
of course His Holiness the Dalai Lama But, in terms of the one who executed that particular activity, was, um, Gen Lobsang Gyatso of the the founder and principal of the Institute of Buddhist Dialectics, who was incredibly kind to me allowing me to join the class. And as I mentioned, I wasn’t particularly gifted student, but never did that I was able to learn a bit of Tibetan there such that
I had some kind of grounding when I met Trulshik Rinpoche the second time. So later when I came to Nepal in 97 at that time, uh, reconnected Kyabje Trulshik Rinpoche met and started to rely upon as a spiritual teacher. Kyabje Shechen Rabjam Rinpoche and also Khenpo Yeshe Gyaltsen , That all kind of started almost 30 years ago now when I first came here. And, but Trulshik I kind of, because I knew Tibetan and Rinpoche was extremely kind. Then that kind of clicked kind of analogy of the hook and the, uh, and the ring come to mind. Rinpoche had a,
a a way not unlike Kyabje Dudjom Rinpoche making the most profound things, incredibly simple So a lot of the time, Rinpoche wouldn’t say very much, but Whatever he would say would be incredibly profound. from the kind of lion in a way to the kind of quiet whisper, which carries with it, such incredible potency and profundity that it’s really life, life changing. And Rabjam Rinpoche is kind of quite similar in a way. Rinpoche is quite reserved. But sometimes when you’re speaking to him, uh, he, is just like,
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche I mean, as a person he’s incredibly spacious, incredibly accommodating, and kindness, which is just unbelievable, the things that drive you know, ordinary people like myself up the walls is nothing.
But then, when the circumstances are there, Rinpoche is just again, is like this kind of flow of, of the dharma. So when you look at them I say as a student, as a disciple, you really can trust that the person that you’re relying on is somebody who embodies, uh, the dharma. And so the one kind of common thread that runs through all of the, the, people I mentioned, is that they really embodied the dharma. It was not the slightest
shade of or center whiff, if you like, of hypocrisy. And so that, you know, eventhough may just be one or two kind of words, or not even the words, it’s that casual glance, et cetera, has a real transformative effect
on those, uh, of us who have the opportunity or the fortunate if you like to encounter them. So these are some, some stories.
[00:11:10] Olivia: So the last 30 years you’ve really most of your time with, Rabjam Rinpoche. It seems like you two obviously have a friendship, but I mean, you spent so much time now translating for him, and I’ve seen you translate. like when you read Tibetan pecha or a text that looks like you’re reading English, like you’ve gotten so in the flow of it or in the groove of it or something. And, um, I wonder too, like, how. Being in, in, in the space of a master like that affects you as a translator. Like how the blessings of, of that affect your ability to be such a conduit,
[00:11:43] Sean: I don’t particularly feel I’m gifted as a translator, but I suppose my bottom line over the years is that from my side, I can try my best and I really trust that, uh, that the kind of blessing of the teacher and also the, the lineage. And so when I’m in that situation of having to, you know, translate for our teachers, of course it’s a great responsibility first and foremost. And so I just, in a way, my, my nature is very reserved and shy, but when I kind of step out then I kind of, kind of put on a role, if you like, and that role is completely fueled by the person that I’m translated.
that Translating for That’s the way I perceive the, the situation in which I find myself. That’s why, That’s what I’m sort of trying to work with, if you like, trying to channel if you, if you prefer. And so as I mentioned, if the kind of blessing of the lama then lineage is there, then hopefully everything goes well. No guarantees, you know, but also I have a particular kind of. Having for more than 30 years now, tried my best to
interpret orally and then to translate, uh, books of masters and what have you. And I’ve kind of developed uh, my own outlook or, and philosophy, within which I do feel that there are three things that have to kind of come uh, together. So if one is to translate well for a teacher, if a translator is to translate well for a teacher, it’s the teacher’s responsibility to kind of guide the, translator and to make sure that they have everything they need so as to be able to, to, to translate well.
So, for example, if we talk about, translating a book you know, public teaching on, on a little text, for example. in a way it’s the teacher’s responsibility to work with the translator to make sure that the text is in the hand of the translator. so both have a a responsibility. It doesn’t mean that the the teaching themselves have to jump up and run around, but just to advise where to find it, to discuss
what’s teaching is going to be given before the teaching actually happens, et cetera. So there’s that a need to interact from the teacher side with the, translator, because the translator is the, is the conduit for the speech of teacher. And when it comes to the listener, they are viewing the person giving the discourse as either somebody sharing interesting information. That they would like to hear. I mean, obviously they, they must find it somewhat intriguing because they’re there, right? And, if on a more profound level they’re listening to guidance from their spiritual guide or, or teacher then the role of the translator is even more important. Because they are the way of communicating with the person who is shaping, uh, their life. And so, in a way, somebody who’s relying on a translator to communicate with their teacher, that person is the embodiment of their teacher’s speech and should be respected as such. And
now when it comes to the translator, you have the responsibility to serve as the conduit of the dharma. And so this isn’t just mere translation. You are giving potentially life changing information so have a, an ethical responsibility to make sure that what you are saying is, 101% the best of
your ability to put one thing from one language into another. this takes not only linguistic skill and not only kind of knowledge of the, of the particular subject matter, but also the culture within which both languages are of held. the translator professor Susan Bassman. I mentioned, linguistic translation, cultural, translation, circumstantial translation, et cetera.
So the person who is serving in that way, translator should know directly and indirectly both of those, such that they can be the perfect conduit. We often hear about, in a way, we don’t need to use the example, if we are going to put something precious milk from, uh, the dairy farm to our house, we need a container.
We’re gonna make sure it’s clean before we put it in, right? So similarly, one needs to make sure that the ones being, if you like, is, uh, prepared. is clean if you – so as to be able to serve as such a, a conduit. So this is uh, my kind of general way of, of looking at, at the three factors that are are needed or kind of makeup, if you like, of, a translation.
But of course this is in a general way, but it goes more and more deep depending upon the, the teaching, the it is given. So in regards kind of, preparation this is something that’s kind of needed. And so this development of, of relying upon a translator from everybody’s side is something that doesn’t come overnight, is something that is really. developed over time, practice, study, contemplative lifestyle. and ultimately through kind of the transformation of one’s mind through meditation. So in this spiritual world, when this is really, in my opinion, what’s necessary of all three kind of, uh, components. So for me, as I mentioned, I try my best to live up to my own kind of, outlook or view, if you will. Whether I succeed or not is for you to, decide,
[00:17:46] Olivia: So I’m not sure how many books you’ve published officially, but certainly three of them relate to spontaneous song, Saraha, and Shabkar and Khenpo Gangshar Wangpo Why those yogins in particular? And then also just around spontaneous songs can you also speak about the medicine of spontaneous song for both the ones singing it as well as the one receiving it?
[00:18:10] Sean: So the reason Khenpo Karma Gendun and I, uh, put together the collective writings of Saraha is because I’d long felt that Saraha is, of course, some people argue the most important of the Indian mahasiddhas. And I think that in that role, he’s been long overlooked. So Many people kind of claim that in a way, the rights to Saraha if you can for example, Kagyu tradition, we can talk about, in the, the, songs of Mahamudra gathered by the seventh Dalai Lama , is beautifully rendered into English for, for us. So there we find some songs of Saraha and kind of, there’s the idea that, okay, you are English, a collection of Mahamudra songs which belongs to Kagyupa people, et cetera. And I did have, an experience in 1999, I think it was 98, 9 time, I had the fortune of staying in Varanasi, at the Institute of higher Tibetan Studies. And at the time, I would go to visit Thrangu, Thrangu Rinpoche at his monastery is now the kind of beautiful Vajravidya Institute,
but at the time it was a building site and Rinpoche’s house was to the side. And I would, uh, offer, go to visit him. And he quite well, at the time. And, uh, I knew, uh, through Rinpoche his artist, the great painter And uh, so I would go to visit Rigzin and then I would pop into see, Rinpoche and Rinpoche would often and ask me to do only jobs for him to find him certain books.
so he would often say, okay Sean, I’d like you to go to the, um, the library and when in the library, I would like you to get, Saraha’s Song for the Queen.
I’m going to South India, the next week, and I’d like to teach it there. And so I remember going to the, Institute of Higher Tibetan Studies Library.
Finding on the, microfiche before computers, have everything digitized Then Saraha, this came up. Okay, What do we. have here? Song for the Queen. Okay. It’s in the Dege edition of the, Tengyur. where then we have – edition, which is the easiest one to find. So we pull it out and it’s, uh, these beautiful books, which you can open the pages off and then there’s the text, but it’s that particular edition of the Dege Kangyur Tengyur both, it’s quite worn down and it’s a copy of a copy and a copy, which is cleaned out. But you know.
It’s still difficult to read, you know, it’s not that clear. But that was the only one they had. And so I remember copying it and giving it to, the Rinpoche, and the Rinpoche was like, is this the only one they have?
Isn’t there a clearer one? Sorry. You know, but that struck a chord with me And until later. in the early, noughties, when I started to do some sort of translation work and get some money, and then I would pay for the publication of books. And so I wanted to make Saraha’s songs available because
one of the things I wanted to kind of promote, which was maybe a little bit biased, but there is a wonderful Guru Yoga of Saraha, which was in the terma teaching of Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche which very few people know about. And so I had the idea to make a little book and uh, the first text would be the Guru Yoga and the six famous songs of Saraha of saw and then a biography by, Tāranātha. and the idea was that if Kyabje Trulshik Rinpoche
would give the empowerment and the transmission of the songs, et cetera, that the practitioner could take this little book. and you could go to a mountain top and we could practice the Guru Yoga of Saraha then read the songs. And if you still required inspiration, you can read this biography. So that was the idea And so when it came into the orbit of, my dharma friends Khenpo Karma Gendun it became bigger and bigger and bigger. And eventually it became then the the collected writings of Saraha both in Tibetan and in Sanskrit, whatever existed. we put that together one very large volume. and that was
the second project I did with Tsadra. So I got to know them, in the mid to, yeah, mid, mid naughties And that the first publication we did together was the Collected Writings of Shechen Khenpo Gangshar Wangpo, who is the root guru of Trungpa Rinpoche and the second was the Collected Writings of Saraha I think it was probably 2008. So there wasn’t a particular feeling of spontaneously songs being something to preserve.
It was rather the legacy of Saraha would have been something that everybody should know about and it should be available. That was what kind of drove me. And luckily we had the fortune to not only produce, a book, of his collected writings, but also two volumes of, commentaries on those writings by, mainly Kagyupa one or two, I think scholars.
And so all the known, – not modern, historical commentaries were put together, by friend of mine, – Tsering of the Thrangu Monastery. And we publish those, under the direct guidance of Kyabje
We we’re able to make them, available. The one with Shabkar again, is, there’s no kind of real feeling of song or anything like that, but Shabkar is kind of somebody who in the okay, late nineties, early naughties we knew of Shabkar of course because of his wonderful, dzogchen book, the, Flight of the Garuda. I think that’s what most people know him for. but the rest of his writings were not really well known at the time.
It was scattered here and there, and a few were published in the Dolpo region in Northern Nepal. and A few here and a few there kind of thing. And so it was, our friend and teacher, Matthieu Ricard, who really went outta his way to kind of put that collection together. As I saying those great minds think alike. Similarly in Rebkong or in Amdo region of Tibet, And there was a bunch of people putting together the writings of Shabkar there as well. Previously, of course, we had the biography and also the kind of autobiography. And then there’s the latter part of his, life, including his death that was written by one of his disciple’s Pema Rangdrol. but those were published, People’s Printing Press. So we had kind of access to them because those days in Tibetan books were quite flow, quite easily between Tibetan and Nepal. And I think even, in, uh, in India there was an offset edition of, of those biographies made.
And so, um, that was a great inspiration for a lot of people. But what else did he write? Do we really know kind of thing that then. Matthieu kind of pulled everything together and it worked out that we had, uh, 14 volumes of 13 and let’s say 14 volumes of his writings. so Matthieu published those, with Shechen publications and it was a real kind of groundbreaker because you really then got to see, you know, how Shabkar viewed the world, what his particular philosophy or outlook view, if you like, was. And so within those volumes, Matth encouraged me to read the Emanated Scripture of Manjushri. And then later we very much encouraged me to translate that. So it was a project that I began in the late naughties
[00:25:22] Olivia: Yeah.
[00:25:23] Sean: sometime, but in a way because it was so inspiring because Shabkar is somebody in that particular book who is not writing a philosophical discourse. It was not somebody who’s writing down pith instructions in a generic way.
This book, as I wrote in the, in the introduction, is a testament to the genuine relationship that, a, a spiritual seeker or disciple should have with their guide or guru. It world. shows that the, the kind of conversation, the exchange, the interaction that the two should have, because
I believe, and maybe I’m right in this, maybe I’m wrong, I have no idea, but how I was kind of brought up by spiritual teachers is that the student should be open, and the only way you’re going to open is through dialogue. And so you see this reflected in Shabkar’s writing, The student show up and they hello, great teacher. How are you? Can you tell me about this? And then they repeat what they’ve just said in a poetry, then Shabkar listens to their questions, knows the person in front of him, and then he answers their question. and then he summarizes it as a poem, not a poem in the traditional kind of poetic sense of, English or French, for example, but rather than mnemonic prose so that it’s something you can go away, memorize.
You’ve always got that to fall back on, you know, when you’re sitting alone in cave somewhere, you know?
And so that’s really the way that Shabkar, if you look at his autobiography, which Matthieu kindly translated for us, and in the Emanated uh, Scripture of Manjushri, you find this
way of dialogue or the way of kind of exchange between the teacher and, and the student. That’s the way you get to have a relationship.
So if you want to know the person, then there’s a whole process of getting to know. So similarly, kind of attending, public teaching is one thing, and it can be life changing of course, but if you really want to have a relationship with the person who’s getting the discourse, you have to go out if you way to develop that. And it takes time and effort and for both sides -. And so this is what I think is very much, um, reflected in the Emanated Scripture of Manjushri and also in the Autobiography of Shabkar. and other others of, the Shabkar’s writing. it’s a kind of, in a way, a testament to that kind of relationship. And in a way it’s A sign of how things should be if we kind of would like to tread that particular, path.
And so those were the reasons for, those two particular books when it comes to, spiritual songs and what have you. I’ve published quite a lot over the years and
something that struck me in recent. times was, the discovery of a text, which was written by Mipham for the previous Sangye Nyenpa and previous Sangye Nyenpa had given teaching on it before he passed away ’cause he wanted it to pass it on. When I discovered that book, I kind of searched for the root text far and wide through three or four editions of, uh, Mipham’s writings and I couldn’t find it. in a way it’s not surprising because the text was written for the young ninth Sangye Nyenpa Rinpoche who was the elder brother of Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche he when
was young. And as he says in there, when he gave the teaching, this is my life practice, it’s one page. But that was the, the core element, if you like, to his spiritual life.
And so the ninth Nyenpa Rinpoche one of the greatest Kagyupa lamas Eastern Tibet, retreat master of and guide, if you like, of his younger brother Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche when he was young. so a very important figure. but the main import of his kind of life was this one page and it wasn’t included in the writings. And that kind of made me think when we look at, for example, in modern times, Kyabje Dudjom Rinpoche, Kyabje Dilgo Rinpoche’s
writings and we find their collected, pieces of advice, shaldam ཞལ་གདམས་, shal, mouth, dam quintessential instruction. We find them. And maybe there’s a hundred pages or maybe 90 pages something like that, wow, that’s amazing. And we can’t read them. and we put them on the side. and Mipham probably, I mean in his writings, there’s a whole section, so quite a lot of pages. put them together.
We read them, we put them to one side and we say, that’s nice. I wonder if there are any more. And so we kind of get spoiled. We have too much of the same thing. We don’t treasure anything any longer because we had it in abundance. And that really struck me when I discovered this text. And we, some friends and I, we put it nicely and we edited it properly and we gave it
to Kyabje Shechen Rabjam Rinpoche gave it to Kyabje Sangye Nyenpa Rinpoche, asked them to teach it to look after it and that kind of thing. It really struck me that in the past, in Tibet, in the good old days, as you heard. Indian masters say, Indian masters became enlightened on one dharma. And by becoming enlightened they knew all dharmas. Whereas the Tibetan tried to master all dharmas And yet failed in the quest to become enlightened.
And it really jarred me in a way But, you know, one teaching should be enough. We should be able to run with that. because we don’t need, luckily, in a way, as a disciple, we are spared the burden of, of,
caring for a big monastery or kind of sitting on throne giving thousands of empowerments and and textual transmissions along with all the bother that comes with that. We don’t have to do that. We have leisure to be on our own. And we were endowed with
the dharma and some time. So in a way we should make use of that. So this was something that was greatly revealed in the, reflection upon what the quintessential advice oral advice was, or what it is. and that at the time.
And so this is something that I think this is important because if a Lama is does sing a song spontaneously and somebody writes it down for that audience in a way that is enough, to do with the digestion of that, to making it a part of who you are as an individual. But of course it’s personal, that the, the, danger comes with, you got one, you need two, you have two, you need four,
And So that’s in a way detrimental to our own
kind of spiritual wellbeing.
[00:32:03] Sean: We really want to run with something should be one and everything else should just ornament the one but that ornamentation process again is subjective.
[00:32:13] Olivia: I just love the way you put that. They’re all ornaments to one
And You’ve devoted, I don’t know how many decades now to, gathering rare texts and printing them, and wondering that process, like what is the process of finding these rare texts, deciding they’re worthwhile to preserve?
[00:32:30] Sean: One thing that, you should know is that
Whatever you think of me and what I’ve done with Tibetan books over the years. is nothing compared to the efforts of Gene Smith and my teacher
Alak These are the giants, and by comparison, I’m just like a kind of tick, you know. And so they really they’re the people that, sadly, Gene’s no longer with us. And and. friends Jake Dalton, United States. We very much wanted to kind of get Gene to relate his life to us.
Sadly, it never happened. and Such a loss because his biography, knowing that would be so useful for, for all of us. not only Westerners, but to Tibetans as well. Because it wasn’t for Gene outside of Tibet, And in a way, inside Tibet, thus this renaissance of Tibetan literature wouldn’t have happened. And for me personally, I, knew Gene, not as well as I say Matthieu for example. But I knew him pretty well
and he gave a lot of, when I was first started to work preserving and printing of rare books, he gave a lot of advice and, it was very, very helpful in the way to look at things. So I kind
of, you know, in a way I kind of remember, I kind of memorized what he told me. don’t ask me to repeat it all, I tried to live by that guideline. same with Zenkar Rinpoche.
it’s very important that you dedicate your life to locating, and preserving rare books. So we’re now, at a important point in the history If we are able to serve the dharma through protecting that books now, there’s a hope that it will endure in the future.
if we just leave it now, then that hope is -. And so that’s again, something that Rinpoche mentioned to me and that I try to use as a guideline, for the work which I do. And so first and foremost, when it comes to printing a book, what’s useful? Any publisher has limited funds. what
is useful for people? What do people need? Everybody will say, I need this, that, and the other. But then as a publisher, you have to make a decision. This is useful, that isn’t useful. So for that, one needs to have an overview of
knowing what’s available, what you know was available and under such you can still get your hands on it, perhaps digitally through BDRC or Tsadra’s websites or somebody has it in the library That is, it’s not that difficult to get ahold of. Those kind of things are, you know, we don’t really need to invest in reproducing them ’cause they’re there. So we hear of, you know, great teachers,
Patrul Rinpoche for example, they say, oh Patrul Rinpoche’s writings are available. And Matthieu kindly bothered to record all the oral teachings of the great Masters in the past and he wrote Enlightened Vagabond, which was translated to Tibetan and other languages.
So then we know about his. teachers. So Do Khyentse, what’s there? Zenkar Rinpoche kindly put that collection together. Oh, well, it must have been available earlier. It wasn’t, the
great granddaughter of Do Khyentse, Do Dasel Wangmo, she under Zenkar Rinpoche’s gathered direction, gathered that and made that available, Rinpoche then printed it so that tradition survives because somebody bothered to gather it together. And so similarly, when you read in Patrul Rinpoche’s writings about his student
Nyoshul Lungtok or a couple of prayers on Lotsawa house, you may say, but what did he actually write? And we know, for example, if you read, Tulku Thondup’ s Masters of Meditation and Miracles, he mentions certain writing, certain letters, et cetera. But other than that, nothing is known. And so then.
If we look around and we find teachings on a lot of unique mind training teachings, very special ways of practicing this and that, you know. So those writings are there, but they’re not put in a, particular conduit. they’re not held together in any way. They’re kind of spread out, if your like. If we want ’em to survive, because
the textual transmission, the lung exists. So if we put everything together and you have it in a book, whether it be a slim paperback or a Tibetan book, it doesn’t really make much difference. If it’s there, people know it, then they can ask the transmission, Then once the transmission is there, the text there, then the thing can survive. Because at the moment if we just leave everything, nothing is there. you ask about what to choose, for example, Khenpo Gangshar, that was the first project I did. I simply had an interest in Khenpo Gangshar, not because he’s from Shechen, not because he’s Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche’s teacher. I simply was looking through, the great translator, Erik Pema Kunsang’s book, Crystal Cave. And
there he translated the most important text of, Khenpo Gangshar, which is called in his translation, naturally liberating whatever you meet. I liked it, so I wanted to know more about the person. So it was that kind of inquisitiveness that led me to kind of getting texts from Tibet and here and there, pulling all these things together so as to be able to produce that.
An addition of those writings. I often joke with my friends, at the, the Nalanda Translation Group, Zurmang Trungpa Rinpoche’s Translation Group, mainly Larry Mermelstein, I got more Khenpo Gangshar’s text in 13 months then you what, in 30 years.
Really. But the benefit of that was that we put them together and then kyabje Shechen Rabjam Rinpoche asked his Uncle Chime Tulku, who lives in London for one or two of oral transmissions of his guru, Khenpo Gangshar writings and Rinpoche had them all. And so to be frank, I was a little bit skeptical. And then I asked, Chime Rinpoche, how come you happen to have all of these things? And then he told me how Khenpo Gangshar always had two scribes with him. sometimes he would speak spontaneously and say, would write something down. And so scribes would always keep one copy.
And so Chime Rinpoche then he would, you know, every time he would see his teacher, he would say, oh, can I have them or give the transmission of it. So he, you know, had that interest. And so then Rinpoche received that from him And, we were together in London. there was a few of us, Tsewang from Shechen, he was there, and Matthieu, and mainly, Rabjam Rinpoche, and Chime Rinpoche’s
disciples, Dr. Mike Stone and his wife Amelia there were there as well. tiny, tiny, flat. And he gave the half of the collection there. And half of the hotel was staying So he received that. And then Rinpoche joked, He said, what a waste of time. What a waste of breath. And then Rinpoche gave the transmission here at the request of Gangshar Tulku’s disciples from China, who came all the way just to receive that. Rinpoche himself couldn’t come. And then later when Rinpoche went to Kham, Gangshar Tulku requested, and he gave it there to another two, 3000 people. So now everybody has that transmission. And everybody, well not everybody, but some people have the books and they read and try to practice Khenpo Gangshar’s teaching. So in that way it’s a kind of success. And with that particular book, it’s something I think I’m allowed to say I’m a little bit proud of in the sense that it started out as a small slim volume of texts that Khenpo Karma Gendun and I put together under the direct guidance of Kyabje Thrangu Rinpoche and Kyabje Thrangu Rinpoche kindly taught every text in that collection. And every text in that has been translated.
And so in a way it’s a model for success that every text is translated. I think the last text, which is, Mipham’s Song of the View of the Great Perfection is Khenpo Gangshar’s commentary, so that isn’t translated. But, the root text, Khenpo Gangshar’s outline and Thrangu Rinpoche’s commentary, which is based on, Khenpo Gangshar’s teaching, that’s, available. Our dear friend, Khenpo Karma Choephel David.
He made that available in one of three text and a beautiful collection and Song of the View. And so, you know, in a way that was a kind of benchmark that I don’t think we will ever kind of get to again, but it was something that, really did in a way have a, have an impact, however small that may be. But nevertheless, it’s there.
[00:41:06] Olivia: well it seems interesting too, like like the urgency of printing the text, but then also lining it up with lung so people can actually even read them, I think of the upcoming transmissions with Rinpoche and how the Tsadra foundation, the foundation you’re part of, requested all of these
[00:41:20] Sean: Rabjam Rinpoche kindly said to, Eric, the president of Tsadra. your work is very important for the preservation of the dharma. So you produce the books, if I have the empowerments or textual transmissions, I’ll pass them on.
And so that’s the kind of working relationship in that kind of, preserving the, uh, lineages of the, the dharma that we try to in some small way enact so as to kind of prompt or kind kindly request Rinpoche to pass on these rare transmissions so that they survive for the next generation.
So Tsele’s writings is something very important. I mean, in a way, the importance of his writing is reflected in that in India
there were three editions produced based on manuscripts from Dzongsar Khyentse Chokyi Lodro, Dudjom Rinpoche and Chatral Sangye Dorje. And so, three different editions. So they’ve bothered to preserve these books and more’s the point in terms of Kyabje Dudjom Rinpoche and Kyabje Chatral Sangye Dorje. they’ve requested Gene to reproduce them ’cause they didn’t want ’em to be lost. So it’s a very important, individual. And of course in English, we are very fortunate that Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche spoke to Dzongsar Khyentse Chokyi Lodro
about books and what books he thought were important. And Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche was kind enough to relate that conversation to.
the master translator, Erik Pema Kunsang and, uh, Erik Pema Kunsang was kind enough to, to write it down and, Marcia at Rangjung Yeshe publications were kind enough to publish books and Tsele’s writing within which that, conversation is is recounted about the importance of these books. So we in the West, we are very fortunate that the, the main texts of Tsele were translated by Eric, and it’s because of him that we know of Tsele and it’s only because of Eric that I got to know of Tsele
and then I looked for the Tibetan and it just wasn’t there. And so with my.
very close friend and teacher Khenpo Shedup Tenzin of Shri Gautam Buddha Vihara in Swayambhu (Nepal) we produced the collected, commentaries of Tsele mainly, the three that Dzongsar Khyentse Chokyi Lodro emphasized to Tulku Urgyen, which was on, Mahamudra
uh, Great Perfection and bardo. We published that along with his kind of heart advice and the song that he sang before he passed away in one volume even just went. So then we took the eight volumes and we extracted all the instructions, including the songs of realization and pieces of advice and so forth.
And we put those all together and two volumes, and again, finished. So now we’re doing the whole collection because the Jatsön Nyingpo terma teachings are very, very popular in the northern part of Nepal, notably in the Könchok Chidü . And so, uh, this is very much related with those
cycle of teaching. Again, Kyabje Shechen Rabjam Rinpoche kindly
gave that whole transmission oral, all transmissions and so forth of the famed six volumes of Jatsön Nyingpo, and, uh, we were fortunate enough to be there. And at the time we mentioned the empowerments are given, based on the writings of Tsele. I have that collection and I’ll pass it on once the book’s ready, So hopefully in a month or two this will happen here.
[00:44:38] Olivia: So then by then all of these translations will be available.
[00:44:41] Sean: They’re all available now. Eric translated them.
[00:44:43] Olivia: I know Eric’s, but the, the collections you just spoke about,
[00:44:46] Sean: Oh, they are TIbetan.
They we’ll be available. So
for the event, all the text that Ash will giving the reading transmissions of the empowerments for, they’ll be available. we produce them all.
[00:44:57] Olivia: Yeah.
[00:44:58] Sean: Karma Lingpas writing, Rongzompa’s writing. Tsele’s writing. Shechen Kongtrul’s writings, they’re all available.
[00:45:05] Olivia: Oh my goodness, how incredible. well, before we close, since I’ve used so much of your precious time, I’m so delighted everything you’ve shared is Very special. knowing some of the backstory and. And the ties between them all.
I’m just wondering if there’s anything else you’d like to share, anything you’d like to leave people with? any advice or whatever is most important to you in, in this moment? Aspirations you have?
[00:45:30] Sean: Of course, we are all in terms of aspiration. We all have our own aspiration, which should be along the lines of Wishing to awaken the benefit of all sentient beings. And in a way, there’s nothing greater than that. And, uh, on the way there too, everybody has their unique to play. And so as long as the motivation is pure, hopefully the action follows through.
And so that’s what I try my best to do. But I would like to
understate to you and your listeners that I’m not a perfect individual. I’m full of mistakes. And so if you see that, please do let me know.
[00:46:08] Olivia: thank you again and uh. We thank the audience, the crows and the motorcycles, and anything else, anybody else? All
[00:46:17] Sean: When I go they’ll all vanish be silent.
[00:46:21] Olivia: Well thank you so much Sean.
Sean: You’re welcome
Thank you for listening. If this conversation with Sean Price resonated, you may also be interested in a conversation with the translator and practitioner Sangye Khandro. Sangye speaks about the grief of losing her teacher of nearly 30 years. What it means to truly receive the dharma, why most of us are just scratching the surface, and how awareness can change the texture of an ordinary day. And more, you can find the link in the show notes.